tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post7023193560391134479..comments2024-03-28T06:26:03.040-07:00Comments on Howling Tower: A Problem of PerceptionStevehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-55031870432285668912012-08-20T21:44:31.247-07:002012-08-20T21:44:31.247-07:00Yes. The thief's "hear noise" is rea...Yes. The thief's "hear noise" is really a perception skill, anyways (it starts at 2 in 6 and increases with level). Everyone else has listen as 1 in 6, and it takes a turn to do unless you figure out something clever. This works really well.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-25675802157831582522012-08-19T22:30:32.014-07:002012-08-19T22:30:32.014-07:00If the main problem with it is that it breaks the ...If the main problem with it is that it breaks the cleric archetype, then it's dealt with easily enough. There's no need to think of the Cleric as particularly eagle-eyed, just thoughtful, and insightful. He doesn't hunt around, he ponders for a few moments, playing out scenarios in his head, and then points right at it. Of course, anyone can play it that way, but for rogues and rangers it's usually more the eagle-eye thing.<br /><br />I'm not worried about clerics being the best scouts. There's still more to scouting than being able to see well.<br /><br />I don't mind the floating ability score approach. I like it in Traveller, and it's one of the few things I like so far about the D&D playtest.<br /><br />I do like getting rid of it entirely. It tends to be though of as a characters basic visual capability and as such it is over-rolled and over-inflated.<br /><br />Simply roleplaying perception is a fine approach at times, but I prefer to treat my players as players and not as their characters, who may be far more perceptive than they are, and have the benefit of actually seeing the scene, rather than just having it described to them.centaurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17625277812057790915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-87089422133487813092012-08-19T00:28:07.293-07:002012-08-19T00:28:07.293-07:00PS Don't 1E rangers and barbarians have less c...PS Don't 1E rangers and barbarians have less chance of being surprised?<br /><br />Arguably that's a form of class-based perception.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-70620344372374645392012-08-19T00:26:36.977-07:002012-08-19T00:26:36.977-07:00Perhaps that depends on whether you have rangers.Perhaps that depends on whether you have rangers.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-14423789489866728512012-08-19T00:21:09.482-07:002012-08-19T00:21:09.482-07:00A ha! I think that's what I'm thinking of....A ha! I think that's what I'm thinking of.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-14151837740733295532012-08-18T17:40:53.513-07:002012-08-18T17:40:53.513-07:00You just wrote my newest houserule for my 4E campa...You just wrote my newest houserule for my 4E campaign I run.mbeacomhttp://www.huntersquarry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-26102745902598699732012-08-18T03:37:12.333-07:002012-08-18T03:37:12.333-07:00Oops, above comment is in response to the poster w...Oops, above comment is in response to the poster who talked about having a 7th ability score ;)Richard Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01371889041466152679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-55176876651709873792012-08-18T03:35:49.365-07:002012-08-18T03:35:49.365-07:00We did the same thing, although can't remember...We did the same thing, although can't remember if I used the Dragon article or just made up a house rule. Dragon was expensive in the UK in the early days. Richard Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01371889041466152679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-88374289663752770022012-08-17T18:42:48.211-07:002012-08-17T18:42:48.211-07:00I really like your option #4 there, spreading out ...I really like your option #4 there, spreading out the perception across the various reasons to be perceptive. 'Tactics' or 'Survival' would be a great one for Fighters spotting ambushes.<br /><br />A similar option would be for social skills. Let your wizard use Arcana to influence the Wizards at the Transmutation School while the cleric uses Religion to influence the local priests to give the party some cheaper holy water.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-57009302769964617032012-08-17T18:39:10.978-07:002012-08-17T18:39:10.978-07:00If I remember correctly, the 1e Oriental Adventure...If I remember correctly, the 1e Oriental Adventures had some sort of Caste system built into it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-44925791498687292592012-08-17T15:15:54.791-07:002012-08-17T15:15:54.791-07:00Very thought provoking! You've also illustrate...Very thought provoking! You've also illustrated one of the reasons why I hate class-based systems, the class and cross-class skill lists. I don't think perception should be a skill, it should be an ability or at least tied an ability score depending on how it is used. I've never understood why it was based on Wisdom either because it seems more like a Dexterity or Intelligence ability to me.Patrick Mallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04906639025904535922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-37034340753914595102012-08-17T11:13:43.608-07:002012-08-17T11:13:43.608-07:00I think there's something to be said for this,...I think there's something to be said for this, but it raises the question of how broad or narrow your definitions are. If warriors can spot ambushers lurking in the rocks, can they spot a manticore lurking in the rocks? Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-37236021648786692772012-08-17T11:12:36.997-07:002012-08-17T11:12:36.997-07:00Thanks Steve.Thanks Steve.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-89092243388642016302012-08-17T11:06:28.723-07:002012-08-17T11:06:28.723-07:00There was never an official social class stat, but...There was never an official social class stat, but it did appear as an option in the historical supplement "A Mighty Fortress." Undoubtedly there were Dragon articles on the subject, though none come to mind specifically. Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-71376784510662261592012-08-17T11:03:37.676-07:002012-08-17T11:03:37.676-07:00Comeliness was an inexplicable choice for a sevent...Comeliness was an inexplicable choice for a seventh stat. Even us in R&D didn't get it, and you'll note that it almost never appeared in any product aside from UA. I'm not the least surprised that Gary never introduced a Perception stat because that wasn't his style of play. Comeliness just left us scratching our heads.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-71326593228032129382012-08-16T23:10:32.576-07:002012-08-16T23:10:32.576-07:00Keep it in the roleplay. Skill and ability checks ...Keep it in the roleplay. Skill and ability checks are a cop-out. I prefer to treat my players as players, not modrons that roll and read dice results all day.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12351926278188565029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-23791444505146643142012-08-16T21:13:01.209-07:002012-08-16T21:13:01.209-07:00PS And/or race-based, of course.PS And/or race-based, of course.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-27380673842811474052012-08-16T21:08:27.556-07:002012-08-16T21:08:27.556-07:00Option 5: Perception is class-based. Just as thiev...Option 5: Perception is class-based. Just as thieves are good at finding traps, so clerics have an uncanny sense that foul magic is about, warriors can spot an ambush and so on.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-81904244207594985682012-08-16T21:06:47.440-07:002012-08-16T21:06:47.440-07:00Perhaps the failure of Comeliness is what set them...Perhaps the failure of Comeliness is what set them in stone.<br /><br />Was there ever a Social Class stat in D&D or am I imagining that?anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-3305119806998325672012-08-16T20:40:09.140-07:002012-08-16T20:40:09.140-07:00Option number 2 or something close to it, please. ...Option number 2 or something close to it, please. If the dice are really needed, assign something a probability of being noticed based on what it is, give thieves an improved chance of noticing, modify for the situation and call it a day.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-34215761952668268952012-08-16T18:57:00.752-07:002012-08-16T18:57:00.752-07:00Oh my goodness, I wish option 4 would happen. The ...Oh my goodness, I wish option 4 would happen. The beauty of Next as written currently will allow this as an easy house rule -- it'll just be a matter of replacing Perception as a skill in some backgrounds.SAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15245295616942643200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-53472650112582623932012-08-16T17:32:09.828-07:002012-08-16T17:32:09.828-07:00Back in early 2nd Ed days, we adopted perception a...Back in early 2nd Ed days, we adopted perception as a 7th ability score from a Dragon Mag article. Can't recall which issue right now. But it made a lot more sense to us that adopting Comeliness from UA. ChrisShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07100160438119455222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-10820349346599572242012-08-16T16:34:33.732-07:002012-08-16T16:34:33.732-07:00"The six ability scores are enshrined in marb..."The six ability scores are enshrined in marble, whether or not they make sense or serve the game"<br /><br />Always bugs me. AD&D added a 7th in Comeliness in Unearthed Arcana, and 2nd edition had sub-abilities in Skills & Powers, so it's not out of the question to have more than the core sixSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773063591841139572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-46233515566665986072012-08-16T16:10:14.748-07:002012-08-16T16:10:14.748-07:00The same as you do with any skill: treat it as unt...The same as you do with any skill: treat it as untrained. Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-541900589888293585.post-30037097175963458002012-08-16T16:07:14.865-07:002012-08-16T16:07:14.865-07:00What would you do if a PC looks for a secret door ...What would you do if a PC looks for a secret door and they dont have Thievery or Dungeoneering? I think Wizards has it right by stressing that it always falls back to an Ability Score.LucidDionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11691189006761497558noreply@blogger.com